Autocross classing fail

"Dr_Watson" (dr_watson)
07/29/2020 at 11:26 • Filed to: Autocross

I r eally wanted to run the car in STU under the catch-all since all the light modifications I’m going to do to make it more safe and usable on track will fit into ST regs.

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But the SCCA tech gods said no in their recent news release.

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So basically as soon as I touch the car it gets bumped into ASP. And I don’t want to start a ritual money fire to celebrate the race tire gods. So that would put me into XSA, which is an exhibition class and a pretty brutal PAX since the modification envelope is basically unrestricted ( essentially SM on 200TW tires) .

STAC gave the finger to Cayman owners being able to run ST in the same meeting as well. Sounds to me like they need something above STU for lightly modified AS/SS cars.

tl;dr: Autocrossing isn’t very friendly to fast street cars if you can’t get into CAM.

DISCUSSION (27)

TheRealBicycleBuck > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 11:34

Mind interpolating all of the acronyms for those of us not enmeshed in the SCCA world?

For Sweden > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 11:40

This is when you get Chad Knaus as your crew chief and break the rules anyway.

Dr_Watson > TheRealBicycleBuck
07/29/2020 at 11:45

Sorry, they’re all competition classifications. They have a balance of performance system (PAX) that adjusts timing based on which class your car falls into so different cars can compete against each other.

SCCA does “Street” for cars that are factory stock (essentially any class that ends in “S”)

“Street Touring” (the ST* classes) is next up the list for when you start lightly modding the suspension bits. But stay on street tires.

“Prepared” (anything that ends in “P”) is after that which opens up more modifications and crucially allows race compound tires.

“Modified” (anything ending in “M”) is the top tier for street legal cars, basically open rules for tuning and also runs on race rubber.

The XSA is an “Xtreme Street” exhibition class they added this year for modified cars that want to run on street tires.

CAM is “Classic American Muscle” which lets American V8 cars ignore the rule book.

Michael > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 11:53

I had a CRX with a motor swap I autocrossed a long time ago. At the time, the engine swap automatically put me in SM2. I was... not competitive

Dr_Watson > Michael
07/29/2020 at 11:55

Yeah, the rules are really unfriendly to engine swaps. If it’s not a factory option engine you basically have to go big or go home.

Michael > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 12:00

But it was an option in Japan, durnit!

ClassicDatsunDebate > For Sweden
07/29/2020 at 12:24

Kinja'd!!!

Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 12:24

Having seen an actual ASP prepped EVO run... stay away from than class, PAX is gonna murder you. In the end, just do whatever you want and run XSB. Ignore PAX and just have fun.

Dr_Watson > Bman76 (no it doesn't need a WS6 hood) M. Arch
07/29/2020 at 12:36

Yeah, there’s no way I’m going to build the car for ASP. That’s insane since this is my DD. And it can’t carry race tires to the event, the tear drop hatch glass is too sloped to fit more than 3 wheels in the back and there’s no way to add a tiny trailer.

Losing badly kind of puts a wet blanket on some of the fun though. Wish the XS PAX was more in line with CAM-C. Having to run almost 2s faster over a 60s course than a modified Z/28 is pretty harsh.

LimitedTimeOnly @ opposite-lock.com > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 12:57

I pleased that even with almost a year away I am sufficiently enmeshed to have understood all that you were saying. SCCA faces a difficult balancing act managing competitiveness and fun when classing cars.

AkursedX > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 12:58

Unfortunately their just isn’t a class for every car and lines have to be drawn somewhere. The XS class will certainly be the way to go if you start modding. Even is you wanted to go ASP, I don’t think you could fit enough tire underneath the car vs the heavy hitters in that group.

Remember, XS is just starting and will hopefully stay. Based on the cars that have entered the class at regional events , I think you will end up seeing a pretty big PAX adjustment to it next year to entice more participation. Most of the cars I’ve seen running in it are slower than their Street-Touring counterparts.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 13:17

Consider this: a stock GT350 runs in SS with a 0.822 pax OR you could build a 800whp GT350 with 315 tires, aero,etc etc and run in CAMC with 0.818 pax.

Pax is hax...its not real...it can't hurt you *cries in a corner*

gettingoldercarguy > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 13:24

Mod away and enjoy the car and the course.

If losing gets to you, have children and you’ll be immersed in loss. Just getting out to the track will be a win.

Do you like driving on back roads at a quick pace?

Dr_Watson > AkursedX
07/29/2020 at 14:04

Yeah, I won’t be bumped into XS until next year. I’ll be doing brakes and camber plates in the spring so I can run some track days next summer when the rona is (hopefully) not an issue. My take is that XS and CAM-C should probably be a bit closer together. CAM-C is a bit generous and XS is a bit stingy.

Dr_Watson > gettingoldercarguy
07/29/2020 at 14:08

I grew up in the country so I used to bomb back roads on the regular when I was young. I do the autocrossing now to scratch my itch without breaking laws. It’s also why I went to the drag strip last week. The urge to street race needs to be suppressed.

Dr_Watson > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
07/29/2020 at 14:12

Word.. CAM-C is a bit of a wild west situation. I’ve seen a built and trailered Z/28 run in that class.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 14:16

Ya, all of CAM is kinda crazy...600whp C5Z with no interior running 335 A052 competing against my stock car on coilovers lol

Stef Schrader > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 14:18

Blerugh. I’m sorry.

I honestly quit caring as much about autocross after a bunch of actually sorta fast things got dumped into the bottom class. I don’t have the time or money to buy the “right” car. Honestly, we need an IS for the real ballers out there still holdin’ it down in a regular car. Spec Daily, make it happen.

Dr_Watson > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
07/29/2020 at 14:22

lol. nice.

Also y our GT350 example is even crazier considering that car has to take off it’s factory spec Cup 2 tires to even get into SS.

gettingoldercarguy > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 14:23

I’ve joined but haven’t raced with https://nhahillclimb.org/ I plan on participating in a few events next year as long as we’re able to get the shit show that is this virus under control.

I’m sure you have similar associations in your area. A great way to bomb roads legally.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 14:25

Does it have to take those off? I was assuming that if the car comes with then from factory it can run them...

Dr_Watson > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
07/29/2020 at 14:27

Pretty sure the 200TW limit is a hard one. OE tire or not.

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 14:28

Ooh wow! That sucks...

Dr_Watson > gettingoldercarguy
07/29/2020 at 14:31

I wish. I’ve never seen or heard of any road racing hill climbs in my area. There’s a few off-road ones though. NY west of the Hudson tends to be pretty steeped in dirt track racing vs road racing. The only track to speak of is Watkins Glen. It’s a good one to have nearby but it’s really the only road course. I think the next closest to Buffalo is Mosport in Canada, and then it’s Pitt race in Pittsburgh and Mid-Ohio or Pocono.

Dr_Watson > Stef Schrader
07/29/2020 at 14:33

Seems the classing is OK for everything in the middle of the spectrum but if you’re at the bottom or top it produces a rage coma.

gettingoldercarguy > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 14:41

http://pahillclimb.org/

https://hillclimb.org/schedule.html

I know there are others.

Stef Schrader > Dr_Watson
07/29/2020 at 14:43

Ha, yeah. I stick to local events and I suck at it anyway.